| System | Hatch has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Hatch has left the conversation. |
| System | Jinx_tv has been added to the conversation. |
| System | There_Fun has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Lynn_Minmei has been added to the conversation. |
| System | There_Developer has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Rhamadaeus has been added to the conversation. |
| Rhamadaeus | Randra |
| System | Hula has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Gruugor has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Digital_Signal_X has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Storm_chan has been added to the conversation. |
| There_Developer | that's quite the outfit rRL |
| Rhamadaeus | Gruugor sup dude |
| Randra_Loqqet | oop hula |
| There_Developer | 'wave |
| Randra_Loqqet | dsx beat ya too it |
| Randra_Loqqet | lol |
| Rhamadaeus | lol |
| Randra_Loqqet | `hi all |
| There_Developer | Thanks for coming! |
| There_Fun | Hey Grugor! |
| There_Developer | I think we are ready to start! |
| There_Developer | right |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'yay |
| Gruugor | hi TF! :) |
| There_Developer | hi! |
| There_Developer | Before we start the Q&A portion of this chat Id like to make sure everyone has the same background understanding of why we had to shut down the Builder Program. |
| Lynn_Minmei | |
| Rhamadaeus | lol |
| There_Developer | did everyone get this string that was fast LOL |
| System | Freddie has been added to the conversation. |
| Rhamadaeus | most of it, nuff to get the point |
| There_Developer | lol |
| Rhamadaeus | hiyas Freddie |
| Lynn_Minmei | it's in chat history :) |
| There_Developer | Before we start the Q&A portion of this chat |
| Hula | 'wave welcome everyone |
| Storm_chan | YAY freddie |
| There_Developer | Id like to make sure everyone has the same background |
| Digital_Signal_X | can you invite whimsy hula? |
| There_Developer | understanding of why we had to shut down the Builder Program. |
| Freddie | hey everyone |
| There_Developer | just thought I'd move |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| Randra_Loqqet | `wave kittenkat is out of her house right now i think :( |
| Hula | whimsy is now on |
| There_Developer | everyone ready |
| Rhamadaeus | 'nod |
| System | Whimsy has been added to the conversation. |
| There_Developer | so to summarize why we ...ahh ok |
| There_Developer | I will wait |
| Hula | grab a seat Whimsy ;) |
| Hula | and welcome |
| There_Fun | OK, while we wait. |
| Whimsy | hey :) |
| Rhamadaeus | hiyas wimsy |
| There_Developer | 'wave |
| There_Fun | I have a short story. |
| Freddie | Jesus, everyone is here |
| Gruugor | oh, goody ... |
| There_Developer | great |
| Randra_Loqqet | lol freddie |
| Gruugor | 'blush |
| There_Fun | Gruugor here I learned happens to be the older brother of a guy I have known for 20 years. |
| Hula | 'Backok Please adjust your view to one that is behind your head forward and out |
| Rhamadaeus | ahh wow |
| Randra_Loqqet | wow cool |
| There_Fun | I discovered that online in There. |
| There_Fun | Talk about a small world |
| Rhamadaeus | aye |
| Gruugor | indeed |
| Gruugor | :) |
| Lynn_Minmei | I found out someone I've been chatting with lives less than 15 miles from me :) |
| There_Fun | Anyway, great to see you G! |
| Digital_Signal_X | hitting enter will clear your chat bubbles and let 7 people speak : ) |
| There_Developer | cool |
| Gruugor | likewise, TF |
| Hula | yes all need to manage bubble flow and we should be fine :) |
| There_Developer | are we ready to go |
| Rhamadaeus | 'nod |
| Randra_Loqqet | lets rock! |
| Gruugor | 'yes |
| There_Developer | yay |
| Hula | '''yay |
| Jinx_tv | I opened my chat history seems to be working great |
| There_Developer | so does everyone understand why we had to shut the builder stuff down |
| Freddie | chat history against this background isn't very readable |
| There_Developer | so suddenly |
| Jinx_tv | yes |
| Rhamadaeus | yea I could imagine the big textures were pouring in |
| There_Developer | basically it boils down to performance |
| There_Developer | the builder submissions were causing performance problems for members on low end machines |
| Lynn_Minmei | `Yes |
| There_Developer | Now you may be thinking that its our fault |
| Rhamadaeus | is there another solution like mentioned in the forums? |
| There_Developer | for accepting submissions that have the ability to negatively |
| There_Developer | ahh can we get to QA in a bit |
| Rhamadaeus | srry |
| There_Developer | I can answer that now though |
| Rhamadaeus | thnx |
| There_Developer | there are tons of good ways to fix the texture issues |
| There_Developer | problem is that the code that handles the way we render the world is very complicated |
| There_Developer | and buried deep in our system |
| There_Developer | it's an architectural change |
| There_Developer | and while we are investigating re-vamping our graphics engine eventually it's not an easy or quick thing to do |
| There_Developer | does that make sense? |
| Gruugor | yes |
| Randra_Loqqet | yep |
| Hula | yeppers |
| Rhamadaeus | yes understandabl e |
| There_Developer | great |
| There_Developer | so basically I want to start out by appologizing |
| There_Developer | it's our fault for accepting stuff that could negatively impact performance in the first place |
| There_Developer | We should have provided better builder template samples |
| Randra_Loqqet | is this mostly textures, or other factors as well |
| There_Developer | templaes |
| There_Developer | there are other factors |
| Randra_Loqqet | k |
| There_Developer | there are the lods the size of item |
| There_Developer | the # of polys and verts |
| Randra_Loqqet | not till recently. |
| Gruugor | indeed you have! |
| There_Developer | I think that we have been prety good at checking vert and poly budgets but we need better guildelines for different size objects |
| Gruugor | well,i've had stuff rejected due to UV verts |
| There_Developer | yes |
| There_Developer | at least we have been checking those |
| There_Developer | and we have some solid guildelines in place even though some of them don't make sense |
| Gruugor | 160 |
| There_Developer | and there is an error in the hoverboard guildelines! |
| Randra_Loqqet | re: LOD1? |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| There_Developer | yes |
| Randra_Loqqet | heh yea. |
| Gruugor | (not 116) |
| There_Developer | so basically we are taking time out to fix all of thos issues |
| There_Developer | and we are going to make sure that there is stilll lots of room for creativity |
| There_Developer | we are adding builder type items liek floors and walls |
| Randra_Loqqet | excellent |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'clap |
| Hula | '''yay |
| Gruugor | cool |
| There_Developer | so that your builder pieces will show up in a category that makes sense! |
| There_Developer | yay |
| Jinx_tv | lol |
| Jinx_tv | not as a plant |
| Rhamadaeus | mind if I invite Kirmeo? |
| There_Developer | and we are adding small ornaments and other stuff in betweeb |
| Hula | lemme get him in Rham and i will get him to sit here |
| Digital_Signal_X | blanket perhaps a lot of the confusion in the thread stems from statements concerning map sizes - that contradict There's own use |
| There_Developer | one secod please |
| Rhamadaeus | he's busy at the monet but the invite would be appreciated |
| Digital_Signal_X | can you speak to how different models may (vehicles vs. plant etc) may use resources? |
| There_Developer | we will release about 15 different buider models when we relaunch the dev site |
| There_Developer | and all will be differnt |
| Randra_Loqqet | will the prices and texture/verts vary greatly? |
| Gruugor | good! |
| There_Developer | not 2 plant models like before |
| There_Developer | we wil have one small plant and one large plant one out door and one more table size each with their own limits and catagory |
| Gruugor | '''yay |
| There_Developer | there will also be new builder models like a hoverbike builder and a group seating builder |
| Randra_Loqqet | excellent |
| There_Developer | where you can make 5 person chat props |
| Rhamadaeus | niiice |
| Jinx_tv | and pricing on group seating? |
| Gruugor | very nice |
| Whimsy | very cool :) |
| There_Developer | ''clap |
| Freddie | that is nice |
| System | Kirmeo has been added to the conversation. |
| There_Developer | Everything will be priced acording to the usual pricing model |
| Hula | please grab the empty seat |
| There_Developer | we will make the wholesale less then 40% of the catalog price |
| Rhamadaeus | hiyas Kirmeo |
| Freddie | hey |
| There_Developer | do you think that that's fair |
| Kirmeo | bit of a n obstacle course in here lol |
| System | Hula has left the conversation. |
| Jinx_tv | yes |
| Digital_Signal_X | : ) |
| Gruugor | that sounds very fair |
| There_Developer | that menas that you can sell your item for the same price as the equivlaent catagory in the catalog and make over 60% |
| There_Developer | great! |
| There_Developer | I am glad |
| Kirmeo | sounds like the standard markup |
| There_Developer | yes we try to keep it as standard as possible |
| There_Developer | sometimes we succed |
| There_Developer | lol |
| Randra_Loqqet | heheh |
| Jinx_tv | floors and walls will be for indoor only or indoor and out? |
| There_Developer | sory my typing is bad they will be outdoor or indoor |
| There_Developer | the templates will be the roman set pieces |
| Randra_Loqqet | ahh neat |
| Freddie | ah1 |
| Jinx_tv | cool |
| Freddie | ! |
| Kirmeo | oh good cuz i just spent 3 hrs tryin to match the roamn wall lol |
| There_Developer | the roman arch for the wall and the deck hex for the floor |
| Randra_Loqqet | does that mean we can actually submit kits? or .. no |
| Randra_Loqqet | sweet |
| There_Developer | we will also be adding the swapable indoor walls as painter items |
| Jinx_tv | oh, I want to submit kits! |
| Whimsy | :D |
| There_Developer | yes Kits! |
| Gruugor | hang on, K |
| There_Developer | we are working on that |
| There_Developer | it won't be ready in time for the builder relaunch though |
| Kirmeo | submitted i have an issue.. 3 boards of mine were rejected cvuz i png files which were accepted by the site |
| There_Developer | but as soon as possible |
| Randra_Loqqet | TD the kits you mean right |
| Randra_Loqqet | or the indoor walls |
| There_Developer | hmm that's not good |
| There_Developer | actually we should accept .pngs all the way |
| There_Developer | our ap can handle them |
| Jinx_tv | seems do you really think it will be ready in 4-6 weeks? it like these things ALWA?YS run over |
| There_Fun | Yes, she means the kits. |
| Randra_Loqqet | tnx TF |
| There_Developer | please send me an email |
| Kirmeo | i thought so too |
| There_Developer | I actually do think so |
| There_Developer | some of the changes are already in QA |
| There_Developer | I just had an FSO |
| There_Developer | which stands for feature sign off of the new approver applications |
| Gruugor | '''yay |
| There_Developer | they are working |
| Kirmeo | so t_d@there.com? |
| There_Developer | ! |
| There_Developer | and approvers will be able to approve builder stuff in under 5 minutes |
| There_Developer | ! |
| Rhamadaeus | g/j |
| Jinx_tv | wow...I bet they will like that |
| Freddie | good! |
| There_Fun | Tell themn what it used to take. |
| There_Developer | yes |
| Hula | '''yay |
| There_Developer | builder items used to take 30 minutes |
| Rhamadaeus | ouch |
| There_Developer | that's why the wait was always so long! |
| Gruugor | '''lol |
| Jinx_tv | I thought it was because only two computers were set up to handle it |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| Lynn_Minmei | '''surprise |
| Rhamadaeus | lol |
| There_Developer | nope |
| Freddie | apparently the testing was done manually. I imagine approveers copying texture files manually... |
| There_Developer | maybe at the begining of beta that was true |
| There_Developer | but we have 3 now ;-) |
| Rhamadaeus | LOL |
| Jinx_tv | lol |
| Freddie | lol |
| Kirmeo | so the exporter will be fixed to grab the right texture files? |
| There_Developer | the 3D studio max exporter or the old Gmax exporter |
| Randra_Loqqet | either? heh |
| There_Developer | hmm |
| Freddie | the old gmax exporter write out bad texturefile names |
| There_Developer | please send me details on that bug There_Develo per@thereinc.com |
| Freddie | TD, that really needs to be corrected, as we will be now working on multiple models for the building kit |
| Gruugor | right |
| Freddie | I'll send you email |
| There_Developer | great! |
| There_Developer | thanks |
| Kirmeo | what should i send u about the png board texture thing? |
| There_Developer | might as well try to get as many bugs out as possible |
| Jinx_tv | wow, if we can use png textures we really need to know about it! |
| Kirmeo | ok |
| Jinx_tv | that would change everything |
| There_Developer | send me the email you got back from us and your submission files |
| Randra_Loqqet | i dunno jinx, doesnt the DDS converter still downsample it anyway? |
| There_Developer | yes |
| Kirmeo | yeah the dds format is a bit harsh on textures |
| There_Developer | everyoe is so halloweeny! |
| Gruugor | lol |
| There_Developer | it's great |
| Jinx_tv | I guess I don't know what the dds converter does to png lol |
| Rhamadaeus | lol |
| Randra_Loqqet | hehe |
| Storm_chan | not me =( |
| Hula | lol |
| There_Developer | exactly |
| Kirmeo | jpg compression is just another layer of noise that gets added |
| Randra_Loqqet | storm just looks cool instead |
| Storm_chan | rofl |
| Randra_Loqqet | hehe |
| Storm_chan | thanks randra |
| There_Developer | any other questions |
| There_Developer | ? |
| Randra_Loqqet | T_D i have a question regarding the textures |
| Gruugor | YES!!! |
| Gruugor | i have a 2-parter: |
| There_Developer | sure RL |
| Digital_Signal_X | many : ) |
| There_Developer | that's a good question |
| Randra_Loqqet | the current plant model has like a 128x128 and 128x256 and a few others or something, but yet a SINGLE 256x256 texture used in place of the 4 textures were denied.. does it cause that much of a performance hit? I would think 1 texture instead of 4 would be BETTER |
| There_Developer | the problem is that we have to draw the line in a way that is easy for our approvers to verify |
| Randra_Loqqet | yea i can understand that i guess, but... heh |
| Rhamadaeus | ahh but the line drawn is beyond the minumum needed |
| Randra_Loqqet | .. i'm sure they could figure it out |
| Rhamadaeus | 128 squred doent look good at all |
| Jinx_tv | I am I think you don't give your approvers enough credit... |
| There_Developer | it may be better to have a 256X256 texture instead of a bunch of 128X128 textures but I have a couple of comments that boil down to "it depends" |
| Gruugor | question about hoverboard textures?: |
| Rhamadaeus | the hoverboard texture tho is another story :( |
| There_Developer | on a small object like a pumpkin it makes no sense to have a ...well I should not say no sense but it would be good to use a smaller texture |
| There_Developer | smaller things will always look better with smaller textures busory biger textures but we have to be conservative |
| There_Developer | that's why we need to take time to give you guys better guiidelines that deal with this on a case by case basis |
| There_Developer | based on model size typw etc |
| There_Developer | it's different for each model |
| There_Developer | and our catch all plants and easter island head were not good samples for most of the stuff you guys cam eup with |
| Randra_Loqqet | heh to say the least ;) |
| There_Developer | so yes in the end some of our new templates wil have some larger 256X256 textures so itf you are submiting something of that typw you will get to use bigger textures |
| Freddie | 'handup |
| Gruugor | right ... 'handup |
| Freddie | 'handup |
| Gruugor | lol |
| Freddie | mhm.. |
| Digital_Signal_X | the To that extent, do the servers and clients physically see difference in terms of resource allocation to a degree that really matters from 64x to 128x? |
| Freddie | TD, I have a question |
| There_Developer | it does matter when there are a lot of those items |
| Digital_Signal_X | Then why does there-store sell objects at the 256 or 512? |
| Gruugor | can you define a "low end machine for our bnefit? |
| There_Developer | we have done tests in QA on low end machines and trust me fill a bunch of portazones with items with 256X256 textures and drop the portazones near eachother and the drop in fram rate is measurable |
| Jinx_tv | so, 30 of those gnomes from shop central would be a real problem, huh? |
| There_Developer | yes! |
| Gruugor | at 256x256, yes |
| There_Developer | our own models are not very good in some cases either! |
| Gruugor | speaking of scrubs, will that happen to dev items? |
| There_Developer | we need to do a scrub of our own stuff some of it was created a long time ago or only supposed to go indoors |
| There_Developer | the gnome for instance was created 4 years ago |
| Rhamadaeus | 'hmm |
| There_Developer | as an indoor object! |
| Gruugor | lol |
| There_Developer | the dev items that are already approved? |
| Jinx_tv | wow, long time to make it into world |
| Gruugor | yes, and in the world |
| There_Developer | yes! |
| Hula | *wants and needs horses for RenFaire* lol any hope of that? |
| Jinx_tv | hope none of our approvals take that long |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| Gruugor | is that yes to dev items in world? |
| Gruugor | (getting scrubbed?) |
| There_Developer | the artists were very jelous when they saw mad dugans' gnome get in |
| There_Fun | Jealous? |
| Jinx_tv | I bet! |
| There_Fun | More like pissed. |
| Randra_Loqqet | lol |
| There_Developer | theirs was art directed out :_) |
| Whimsy | lol |
| There_Developer | :-) |
| Storm_chan | lol |
| Gruugor | lol |
| Hula | lol |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| Gruugor | sory, TD .. did you say yes to dev items getting scrubbed for hi-res textures in the future? |
| Digital_Signal_X | will current dev objects be grandfathered and unaltered? |
| Gruugor | (which are already in world) |
| There_Developer | let me answer that in detail |
| Jinx_tv | right now, you can't see builder objects in overhead zoom modes...will that change? |
| There_Developer | yes we will have to take a look at items that were already approved |
| There_Developer | and yes |
| Gruugor | oof |
| There_Developer | we may need to recal some of the old items |
| Randra_Loqqet | ouch |
| There_Developer | however we will not do so unless |
| Freddie | I think that is fair, although I am very disappointed |
| There_Developer | 1. THe item is really causing issues |
| There_Developer | 2. the item is owned by a lot of people |
| Gruugor | ah, the curse of popularity |
| Gruugor | lol |
| There_Developer | i.e. is popular enough to cause performance problems for many members |
| There_Developer | yes a curse to be good! |
| Jinx_tv | oh good, Ashy's elvis coffin is limited edition so it should be exempt! |
| Storm_chan | lol |
| Randra_Loqqet | lol jinx |
| There_Developer | LOL I have not seen that |
| Gruugor | ok, so that leads into a related question on hoverboards |
| There_Developer | sure |
| Gruugor | is there any opportunity for those of us (many of us) who have boards which were rejected solely on the basis of texture size to have those resubmitted right away with smaller textures? |
| Randra_Loqqet | i was going to ask the same thing |
| Rhamadaeus | that wont solve my problem... |
| Gruugor | because they are good in every other aspect |
| There_Developer | well as you know we shut down submissions |
| Hula | 'sniff |
| Gruugor | ok, part 2: |
| There_Developer | but we can definitely bump you to the fron t of the Q when we open the doors again |
| Jinx_tv | I can't understand a 256x256 hoverboard texture being rejected |
| Randra_Loqqet | no way to say, email them to you or something then eh T_D? |
| Gruugor | will there ever be an opportunity to upgrade models later with higher res textures so they can once again shine in their hi-res glory/ |
| Gruugor | ? |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| There_Developer | we would like that |
| Randra_Loqqet | highrez islands |
| There_Fun | the We have a bigger question to addres which is how we get to next step. |
| Gruugor | sure, sorry . i'm jumping |
| There_Developer | we are considering perhaps allowing some higher res items but charging more money for these to submit and per copy |
| Gruugor | ok, sign me up!!! |
| Randra_Loqqet | T_D now that really doesnt solve the performance issue, which was the entire point |
| There_Developer | the idea is that there would be less of these in world if they were more expensive |
| Rhamadaeus | I wouold gladly pay more for a texture thats 256 squared :) |
| Digital_Signal_X | the you would essentially be charging for lack of skill with apparatus though. |
| There_Developer | but before we do that we need to run tests and understand if it is feasable |
| Randra_Loqqet | i still dont see how this helps the low spec users who may not even buy the items |
| Storm_chan | heh |
| Gruugor | it doesn't really, RL |
| Jinx_tv | DSX, all the skill in the world can only coax so much out of a 256x128 image |
| There_Developer | yes that's why we don't know about that approach |
| Gruugor | sounds like a wish list item for now |
| There_Developer | we have not decided to go with it |
| Digital_Signal_X | actually.. there's a gazebo in auctions now with 128 and 64's only. |
| Randra_Loqqet | i mean i like the idea, but it just seems to fly in the face of the whole revamping reasoning |
| Storm_chan | it's really really good, too |
| There_Developer | our engineering resources are constained though |
| Jinx_tv | can you hoverboard on the gazebo? |
| Gruugor | lol, jtv |
| Gruugor | :) |
| Gruugor | certainly shouldn't |
| Digital_Signal_X | of does a vehicle and a gazebo get treated the same in terms processing resources? |
| Digital_Signal_X | I would hope not. |
| Randra_Loqqet | i doubt it. since the gaz is in a zone, which in theory is now 1 object |
| There_Fun | Well, the answer is that it depends on who you talk with. |
| Gruugor | lol |
| Jinx_tv | I am sure whomever created the gazebo could make an even more amazing gazebo with double pixels |
| There_Developer | can we get the questions one at a time |
| There_Developer | I am having trouble keeping track |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| Gruugor | i'm done for now, thanks |
| Gruugor | being in the front of the que when you reopen would be very nice |
| Gruugor | (even with smaller, yucky textures ) :) |
| There_Fun | TD, take a break for a sec, |
| There_Developer | OK |
| There_Fun | Let me throw in a few ideas. |
| There_Fun | This is a really complicated problem. You are all obviously smart folks which is why this is so productive. |
| There_Fun | We have the same conversation almost daily in the office. |
| There_Fun | That is, how do we make trade offs. |
| There_Fun | My analogy is how many elephants do yo want in the phone booth. |
| Gruugor | good one, TF |
| There_Fun | We can't put them all int because its not a huge phone booth. |
| There_Fun | The engineers try and be tought with the artists because they get pounded on when the frames per second drops. So they get conservative |
| There_Fun | textures The artists say, hey, wait a minute, this 128x128 looks lousey. |
| System | Hula has been added to the conversation. |
| There_Fun | We are still try ing to figure out how to balance it all. |
| There_Fun | TD and I run back and forth between the two groups trying to find a place where everyone is happy. |
| Gruugor | gee, sounds like big fun! |
| There_Developer | lol |
| Randra_Loqqet | thats why hes got the FUN name. |
| There_Fun | It actually is fun only and I mean ONLY becuase of you folks |
| Randra_Loqqet | :D |
| Gruugor | 'blush |
| Gruugor | aw, shucks |
| There_Developer | awe shuck because of me? |
| There_Developer | he he |
| Storm_chan | lol |
| Rhamadaeus | lol |
| There_Fun | I wouldn't want to do this if it wasn't worth it. |
| Whimsy | lol |
| There_Fun | yeah, you too, td |
| Randra_Loqqet | `yay us! |
| Kirmeo | i just want to be on a mailing list cuz i dont always look at the forum and i would like to see t_d respond a little more often although i know that carries the weight of official company line |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| There_Developer | well we are working on getting a devleoper advisory board off the ground |
| Gruugor | '''yay |
| There_Fun | a I'm just trying to give enough background that you get that it's hard problem especially because we were not smart enough to figure out where you wanted to go. |
| Rhamadaeus | hear hear |
| Kirmeo | large round ones lol |
| Gruugor | that all makes good sense, TF |
| There_Developer | and I would love to be in closer communicatio n with you guys |
| Jinx_tv | I just think that 256x256 hoverboards should be approved, and that we should be able to resubmit the other items NOW |
| Hula | i can arrange a monthly chat for you TD :) |
| Hula | hehehe |
| There_Developer | thanks Hula |
| Hula | 'tu |
| Jinx_tv | it's hard for me to get past that |
| There_Fun | I wonder if we should get a club/forum going so we could post offfline as well as do this. |
| Gruugor | that would be very productive |
| Freddie | Most people are in my Builder_Devel oper club. |
| There_Developer | that's a good idea |
| Gruugor | not having so many rants would be nice |
| Freddie | But the club forum is UNUSABLE |
| There_Developer | LOL |
| Hula | it would help keep it separated out as a club forum from the general forum and i find that a easier focus for me on the themed events lol |
| There_Fun | errr, how come Freddie! |
| Freddie | Because the club forum isn't linked to from the main Forum page. |
| Rhamadaeus | I saved my club forums links to my deskop freddie |
| Freddie | The main forum page should list all club forums where I belong (personalized) |
| There_Fun | OK, there is a forums project right now to figure out what and how the forums should change. |
| Kirmeo | yay |
| Randra_Loqqet | i think you should get some user input on that TF |
| There_Fun | In the meantime, let's use your club forums. |
| Lynn_Minmei | vbulletin :) |
| Freddie | Yes, RL, but you need to check each and everyone, to see if there are new posts |
| There_Fun | RL: on the forum change? |
| Randra_Loqqet | yes TF |
| Randra_Loqqet | ok, will do :) |
| Randra_Loqqet | oh yea? cool :D |
| Freddie | TF, my point is that, I can't click on 10 forum links that I am interested very day, 3 times a day. |
| Hula | 'hmmm |
| There_Fun | circulation Well, send your thoughts along. Your last ones got WIDE and are much appreciated. |
| Randra_Loqqet | good to hear :) |
| Freddie | It should show up as another forum int hemain forum page |
| There_Fun | The ones on the dev pgm. |
| Hula | Freddie i think that the club owner can determine if the forum is public to the main forums or not |
| Freddie | ? |
| Freddie | Hula? you sure? |
| There_Fun | TD: how about an update on the backlog? |
| Jinx_tv | forums that would be cool Freddie...I am behind on lots of club because of that problem, including Hula's and the MAB and yours, too |
| Hula | i'm pretty sure |
| There_Developer | ahh yes the backlog is bellow 200! |
| There_Developer | yay |
| Hula | i'll double check that for you though |
| There_Fun | '''yay |
| Freddie | I think it only makes it available to others to read, at the club page, not main forum page |
| There_Developer | we got down to 180 last time I got an update from the approvers |
| Rhamadaeus | g/j TD |
| Kirmeo | is that builder items? |
| Gruugor | must be painters |
| Rhamadaeus | mhmm |
| There_Fun | No, all items. |
| Jinx_tv | doesn't seem like there is a painter backlog at all right now, stuff is taking like...two days |
| There_Developer | builder items are all cleared |
| Hula | '''yay |
| There_Developer | so when we reopen and have the new app we will be in good shape |
| Hula | TD? ok i admit i have an ulterior motive here |
| There_Developer | ahhh ! |
| Hula | i i may have missed the ETA on reopening submisisons but need Horses for Ren Faire... will that be possible? |
| Lynn_Minmei | ROFL |
| There_Developer | lol |
| Randra_Loqqet | heheh. |
| Whimsy | lol |
| Hula | board bike anything!!! |
| Randra_Loqqet | i started on one.. |
| Freddie | We'll be able to model horses for bikes, but that won't be real |
| Hula | and a santa's sleigh!!! |
| Gruugor | absolutely, a santa's sleigh |
| There_Fun | How about horses with wheels? |
| Freddie | Mad dugan also worked on a bike horse |
| Hula | club *my list can go on but you can see it at the themed events forums* ROFL |
| Hula | chariots |
| Hula | lol |
| Jinx_tv | a sleigh might be done on the builder hoverbike...but you really nead a builder hoverboat! |
| Hula | pegasus |
| Randra_Loqqet | the horse i'm making doesnt need wheels ;) |
| There_Fun | Let me comment on the delay. |
| Gruugor | yes!, jtv |
| Hula | '''yay RL |
| Randra_Loqqet | exactly hula |
| There_Fun | We agreed that we really need to be sure that we come back to you with limits we are happy with. |
| There_Developer | the one sec let me check the scheduleI |
| There_Developer | OK |
| There_Fun | To do that we need to do a bunch of testing. |
| There_Developer | we are currently on track to re-launch on NOv 19th |
| Hula | there are just many many themed event possibilities for various vehicles like the dragons and horses |
| There_Fun | That will take more time. Sorry. |
| Hula | 'drat |
| Randra_Loqqet | TD, expect to keep that schedule? |
| Randra_Loqqet | thats not too bad. |
| Hula | REnFaire is 11/5-11/9 |
| There_Developer | I am expecting to right now yes |
| Gruugor | 11/19 sounds reasonably nice :) |
| Lynn_Minmei | is that before or after the new client update? |
| Jinx_tv | wow, Nov 19th would be great...but I'm not getting my hopes up lol |
| There_Developer | I will let you guys know if that changes but we are running full steam ahead |
| Randra_Loqqet | after lynn |
| There_Developer | and should be ready |
| Lynn_Minmei | ok |
| There_Fun | Don't you love it when she talks like that? |
| There_Developer | as long as we don't find too many bugs |
| Randra_Loqqet | heheh |
| Gruugor | it's good sofware developer talk |
| Jinx_tv | It would be great to get some advance notice on what the specs will be and what exactly we will be able to do |
| There_Developer | we need at least 2 to 3 weeks of testing |
| Gruugor | she's learned well :) |
| Kirmeo | and prerelease the models so we can start building |
| Randra_Loqqet | yea it would very much be a benifit if we have specs ahead of time |
| There_Fun | We really want to do a MUCH better job with these numbers this time. |
| There_Developer | yes |
| Gruugor | good, TF |
| There_Fun | Please know that we need time to get them right. |
| There_Developer | well you are in for some cool new features in the previewer too! |
| Gruugor | '''yay |
| Freddie | TD, and TF, I think we all overlooked an very important question |
| There_Developer | our lead engineer has out done himself! |
| Hula | '''yay |
| Freddie | about the builder templates |
| Digital_Signal_X | rather it reminds me of how tom used to talk about all the new stuff then the problems : ) |
| Rhamadaeus | lol |
| Gruugor | no way! way! |
| Hula | what about the builder templates Freddie? |
| Randra_Loqqet | oh yea, like stylemaker sort of? |
| Rhamadaeus | ahh hmm |
| There_Developer | all submissions will come directyl from the previewer and it will tell you before you hit submit if you stuff is outside of the accepted guildelines |
| Jinx_tv | I hate submitting through stylemaker |
| Lynn_Minmei | buildmaker :) |
| Jinx_tv | it makes me sign in each time |
| Freddie | Hula, I'll ask again when everyone calms down, after the previewer feature woo ahhs |
| Jinx_tv | and sometimes you have to try several times in a row |
| Randra_Loqqet | heh i'm not really woo ahhin about it freddie :P |
| There_Developer | yes we have debuged that on the stylemaker |
| Freddie | :) |
| There_Developer | stylemaker submissions will be better too |
| Lynn_Minmei | will we be able to paint TUVs? |
| There_Developer | ahh painter questiion |
| There_Developer | no sorry not for a while |
| Lynn_Minmei | '''drat |
| Gruugor | Freddie's turn |
| There_Developer | we usualy have to wait at least a month after something is in the catalog |
| Freddie | My template question: |
| Jinx_tv | heheh...I wouldn't have bought one from Shop Central if I thought the template would come out right away. |
| Lynn_Minmei | ok |
| Gruugor | go Freddie |
| Freddie | first, are you releasing 'generic' templates of different complexity? or are they all classified in some way (walls, decoration, desktop items, etc)? |
| Freddie | My point is, I think you should release all generic builder items of different complexity, |
| Hula | FYI after Freddie's question, I need to wisk away TD and TF (Domina Demanda is waiting for them both) |
| Freddie | then, when you submit, you choose a category to submit under. |
| There_Developer | ahhh that's a good idea Fredie but our system can not handle that |
| Kirmeo | and when will scripting be availanble? |
| There_Developer | we have these things called Therescripts for each type of item that need to be precreated and then automatcally edited when you submit so we need to designate the layout class and classification ahead of time |
| System | Lostangel has been added to the conversation. |
| There_Developer | but we will have different levels of complexity within each category |
| System | Lostangel has left the conversation. |
| System | Hula has left the conversation. |
| System | Hula has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Lostangel has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Lostangel has left the conversation. |
| Freddie | I know, but really all these items have 3 LODs, and they are really not that different.the complexity is in number of polygons, vertices and the size of texture. That is all. Any item of any complexity combination can be asssigned to any category. Why impose artificial limits on walls? |
| There_Developer | unfortunatley those are our real system limits |
| Freddie | I amy want to design a desktop scholar's delight item with a lot of complexity and sell it at high price |
| There_Developer | but I like how you are thinking |
| There_Developer | maybe we can figure something out |
| There_Fun | The way the accounting is done is by putting things in categories and counting each category. |
| There_Developer | I will chat with our lead programmer |
| There_Fun | It is not one big bucket of stuff, its lots of little buckets. |
| Hula | 'tu |
| There_Fun | They have great reasons why they did it that way but it can definitely be improved but for now, its kind of simpler than you would want. |
| Rhamadaeus | bye Hula |
| Randra_Loqqet | :~ |
| Lynn_Minmei | yes |
| Hula | Ok everyone... I have to wind this down... i'd like to know if this chat forum setting worked for you and if you would like to use it again |
| Randra_Loqqet | worked well for the small builder crowd. |
| Hula | good |
| Freddie | it is very good |
| Jinx_tv | for this size it is fine |
| Lynn_Minmei | does anyone object to me quoting any of you for my caldera sun-times article? |
| Hula | ok DSX i appreciate you sending me the chat log tonite since i stopped logging when i left the circle LOL |
| Freddie | No. Lynn, go ahead |
| There_Fun | Please remove "pissed" from anything I said. rofl |
| Whimsy | lol |
| Rhamadaeus | lol |
| Jinx_tv | lol |
| Lynn_Minmei | ok :) |
| Gruugor | i'm fine with that, Lynn (like i said something useful!) :) |
| There_Developer | nope but please correct my spelling :-) |
| There_Developer | lol |
| Gruugor | lol |
| Hula | up Thank you all for joining this evening here... If there is follow to anything, we will be getting out communications to those of you here |
| Whimsy | lol |
| Hula | ROFL |
| Gruugor | lol |
| Lynn_Minmei | T_D we have people that do that :) |
| Gruugor | yes, thanks TF & TD!!! |
| Hula | with and thank you BOTH TF and TD for coming in to spend time us this evening!!! |
| Freddie | TF, I fail to grasp why it is not possible to categorize things the way I described. |
| There_Fun | The categories you describe don't exist in the way the system deciddes what to display. |
| There_Fun | It doesn't know about product hierarchies. |
| Hula | watching and listening to all of you here, makes me know that all those dreams of disney and space adventure events will happen LOL |
| Hula | '''yay |
| There_Fun | It only knows about "objects". |
| System | Digital_Signal_X has left the conversation. |
| There_Fun | So the limits are set for objects. |
| Hula | ok TD and TF i'm going to be summoning you in just a moment |
| Hula | 'wave |
| Hula | aloha everyone see you soon out there |
| There_Fun | Not some for plants, furniture etc |
| Lynn_Minmei | before you go, I WANT CATS :) |
| Gruugor | thanks, Hula |
| Rhamadaeus | bye Hula 'wave |
| Whimsy | 'bye :) |
| Kirmeo | 'bye |
| System | Hula has left the conversation. |
| System | Whimsy has left the conversation. |
| Storm_chan | cats =D |
| There_Fun | Its no where near as smart as you want. It is what it is. |
| Jinx_tv | cats. |
| Randra_Loqqet | hehe |
| There_Developer | 'wave |
| System | Kirmeo has left the conversation. |
| There_Developer | thanks everyone! |
| There_Developer | 'wave |
| Randra_Loqqet | is the scripting kit still going to be released for us? |
| Jinx_tv | we will have to program our own cats |
| Rhamadaeus | bye TD |
| Storm_chan | rofl |
| Freddie | TF, if the system doesn't know about category, then what I said makes even more sense |
| Jinx_tv | Thank you TD |
| There_Developer | please send me email any time you have questions |
| Jinx_tv | and T_F |
| Lynn_Minmei | hers don't move tho :) |
| Freddie | arghh... |
| Randra_Loqqet | thanks for the session guys and gals |
| System | There_Developer has left the conversation. |
| Rhamadaeus | thnx |
| Gruugor | ok, TD .. tahnks |
| Gruugor | thanks, TF |
| Gruugor | this has been very helpfu |
| Rhamadaeus | yesh thnx TF |
| Lynn_Minmei | and on behalf of babybamadoll, fix the bikes :) |
| Gruugor | obviously, we still have lots of issues, but a forum for all of us to discuss them would be nice |
| Randra_Loqqet | `wave lol |
| There_Fun | If you want cats, see RL |
| System | Rhamadaeus has left the conversation. |
| System | Lostangel has been added to the conversation. |
| Randra_Loqqet | hm |
| Gruugor | that was interesting |
| Storm_chan | O_O |
| Gruugor | lol |
| Jinx_tv | are we in the same building? |
| There_Fun | while |
| Randra_Loqqet | well then i guess you dont have 200 items in your inventory ;) |
| Lynn_Minmei | were we abducted by aliens? |
| Storm_chan | cooool |
| Randra_Loqqet | this is par for the course for some of us, eveyr other second lol |
| Gruugor | Freddie .. i'll see you later ... gotta be afk for a bit |
| Jinx_tv | heheh...it took me 2 hours to put out 12 stools in my clubhouse |
| Gruugor | nice talking with you all |
| System | Jinx_tv has left the conversation. |
| System | Freddie has left the conversation. |
| System | Gruugor has left the conversation. |
| System | Gruugor has been added to the conversation. |
| Freddie | Ok. see you later greg |
| Gruugor | 'wave |
| System | Jinx_tv has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Freddie has been added to the conversation. |
| Gruugor | 'wave |
| Randra_Loqqet | jinx i ended up giving 100s of items to a friend with no zones, to hold for me |
| Randra_Loqqet | see ya later! |
| Lynn_Minmei | Bye RL |
| System | Lynn_Minmei has left the conversation. |
| System | There_Fun has left the conversation. |
| There_Fun | Seeya, Freddie. |
| System | Gruugor has left the conversation. |
| System | Jinx_tv has left the conversation. |
| System | Freddie has left the conversation. |
| System | Storm_chan has left the conversation. |
| System | Lostangel has left the conversation. |
| System | Lynn_Minmei has been added to the conversation. |
| System | There_Fun has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Freddie has been added to the conversation. |
| Lynn_Minmei | was wondering when that was going to kick in |
| Jinx_tv | where are we? |
| Randra_Loqqet | lol |
| Jinx_tv | 'doh |
| Randra_Loqqet | this is freaky |
| Randra_Loqqet | yes freddie |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'blowkiss |
| Freddie | RL, did you understand what I was trying to say with the category. |
| Randra_Loqqet | makes sense to me, but i can understand how it would be hard for them to do. |
| There_Fun | OK, who knows what just happened? |
| Randra_Loqqet | agreed |
| Lynn_Minmei | '''what |
| Freddie | If the There world doesn't understand category, then it makes even more sense to allow us to use generic template 'objects', and when we submit, assign them a cateogry... |
| Lynn_Minmei | haha we're kneeling on the seats |
| Freddie | It just seems too constrained... I mean, how can they ever figure out the right complexisity for any category.... |
| Freddie | argh.... not smart! |
| Jinx_tv | Freddie is kind of dangling his legs |
| There_Fun | Freddie, the answer is that our system has to "sum up" everything around each avatar and decide what to as show. Right now, the way it does that is complicated but nowhere near complicated as what you decide. |
| There_Fun | Imagine, you just teleported to a place and have never seen any of the objects or the textures . |
| Freddie | ok. But how does category comes in? |
| There_Fun | How long should that take? That is before you see the real textures. |
| Freddie | Does the system decide what to load first by looking at categories? |
| Hula | 'hmmm |
| Hula | you are all in very awkward positions ROFL |
| There_Fun | OK, well, right now we say avatars are the most important, then buildings, then vehicles, then other stuff. |
| Freddie | well, all static objects fall under other stuff |
| Lynn_Minmei | T_F is showing us some new yoga tricks |
| There_Fun | Right. |
| Freddie | looks like one big category to me |
| Hula | that's what it looks like Lynn LOL |
| Jinx_tv | it looks painful |
| Hula | WOO HOO |
| There_Fun | the Yeah, so we have to improve the granularity of what we val VIS to figure otu what to show. |
| There_Fun | is Figuring out what to show is a bunch of what your computer doing right now. |
| Jinx_tv | lol |
| There_Fun | Like, what about the stuff otuside these walls. |
| Hula | TF you look like a Lilliputian right now LOL |
| Freddie | argh... but again that has nothing to do with category... :( |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'heyhey |
| There_Fun | Or the stuff that is nearby but not really far away. |
| Lynn_Minmei | hey Hula watch me dance |
| There_Fun | Yes, it does have to do wit the category because we set limits by category. |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'heyhey |
| Freddie | you mean decorations |
| There_Fun | so many avatars, so many vehicles, so many obstacles |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'handstand |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'heyhey |
| Freddie | Are you implying that you will soon be separating 'other stuff' into real categories? |
| Freddie | So you'll have building blocks as opposed to decoration? |
| Jinx_tv | Lynn, that is soooo funny |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'toehop |
| Hula | wb DSX |
| There_Fun | I'm not sure I understand the question |
| Randra_Loqqet | i think TF is missunderstan ding what you were trying to say, freddie. |
| There_Fun | hoverboard is a vehicle |
| Freddie | all static objects (except hoverboard) fall under the 'other stuff' category. |
| System | Lynn_Minmei has left the conversation. |
| Freddie | So, it makes sense for you to create 'generic' templates. |
| Randra_Loqqet | what freddie means is, why does a laptop and a wall have to be the same |
| Lynn_Minmei | 'burp :O |
| Jinx_tv | |
| Randra_Loqqet | we should be able to assign our objects to their own sections. |
| Freddie | Steward, |
| Randra_Loqqet | hm |
| There_Fun | As I said, this is easier to describe than it is to explain what we actually have to do. |
| Randra_Loqqet | CC me on that freddie plz |
| Freddie | I'll send you a more detailed email |
| Freddie | OK. |
| System | Hula has been added to the conversation. |
| Hula | stay still jinx LOL |
| Freddie | My wife is standing behind me, very upset |
| There_Fun | We have a somewhat |
| Hula | i'm tryin to see your outfit |
| Freddie | I've gotta go. |
| Freddie | But I'll send you the email |
| Randra_Loqqet | lol freddie |
| Freddie | and cc RL |
| Randra_Loqqet | take care |
| There_Fun | OK, send to there_fun@ther einc.com |
| System | Hula has left the conversation. |
| System | Jinx_tv has been added to the conversation. |
| Jinx_tv | have you seen all my kimonos Hula? |
| Freddie | OK. |
| There_Fun | I better go to dinner, too. |
| Freddie | 'wave |
| Freddie | bye all |
| Hula | that is HOT |
| Hula | love it! |
| There_Fun | Great hanging out with you all. |
| Freddie | bye jinx and Hula, randra and TF |
| There_Fun | Seeya. |
| Jinx_tv | 'bye Freddie |
| Randra_Loqqet | byeeeee |
| Hula | have fun out There! |
| Hula | 'wave |
| There_Fun | Send me an email if you have stuff you didn't get handled. |
| System | Freddie has left the conversation. |
| There_Fun | 'bow |
| System | There_Fun has left the conversation. |
| Randra_Loqqet | woo purple |
| System | Jinx_tv has left the conversation. |
| System | Digital_Signal_X has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Hula has been added to the conversation. |
| System | Jinx_tv has been added to the conversation. |
| Jinx_tv | this place is acting sooo weird |
| System | Digital_Signal_X has left the conversation. |
| Hula | LOVE IT!!! omg and my favorite color!!! |
| Hula | my house? |
| Randra_Loqqet | its Gages fault somehow. |
| Hula | it is always acting weird ROFL |
| Hula | oo ooo OOOOO |
| Hula | ok bustin out the CC now ROFL |
| Jinx_tv | lol...I told you I was going to make some! |
| Randra_Loqqet | jinx has been a busy bee |
| Hula | you know how i LOVE asian!!! |
| Jinx_tv | why is it Gage's fault? |
| Randra_Loqqet | jinx its always Gages fault. thats just a given. |
| Jinx_tv | lol |
| Randra_Loqqet | hehe |
| Jinx_tv | I know Hula |
| Hula | gonna have to get that for the fire dragon riding attire ROFL |
| Hula | i'm sick and addicted |
| Hula | and a shopaholic to boot |
| Jinx_tv | this one matches the um, purple dragon |
| Randra_Loqqet | seek help! in Tbux |
| Randra_Loqqet | lol |
| Hula | lol |
| Jinx_tv | amythest or whatevah |
| Hula | watevah |
| Jinx_tv | lol...yeah, I hope you buy from tbux or Baloo |
| Hula | i'll go shopping tonite after the over 30's mixer |
| Hula | tbux i just wanted to go check out :) |
| Hula | now that hubby is buyin up the shops too lol |
| Jinx_tv | really? that's cool |
| Jinx_tv | I think. |
| Hula | he started comin in this week more |
| Hula | it is wonnnnderful |
| Hula | if you see Shaman that's my man |
| Hula | :) |
| Jinx_tv | okay, cool |
| Randra_Loqqet | gonna split |
| Hula | not to be confused with Shaman_mantal ban |
| Randra_Loqqet | see ya later :) |
| Hula | ok RL |
| Hula | 'wave |
| Randra_Loqqet | `wave |
| Jinx_tv | nice to see you again Randra |
| Randra_Loqqet | ditto!! |
| Hula | good to see you here :) |